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	<title>Comments on: Q&amp;A with Pervez Hoodbhoy: Part 1 of 2</title>
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		<title>By: Asim Fayaz</title>
		<link>http://www.nextstepforward.net/education-pakistan/qa-with-pervez-hoodbhoy-part-1-of-2/comment-page-1/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Asim Fayaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nextstepforward.net/?p=1146#comment-189</guid>
		<description>Bilal,

Thank you for your kind words. We informed LUMS of our operations since we were using LUMS&#039; name and resources for fund-raising, meetings, etc. But other than that, SRP is a completely student-led, student-managed effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bilal,</p>
<p>Thank you for your kind words. We informed LUMS of our operations since we were using LUMS&#8217; name and resources for fund-raising, meetings, etc. But other than that, SRP is a completely student-led, student-managed effort.</p>
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		<title>By: Bilal Zafar</title>
		<link>http://www.nextstepforward.net/education-pakistan/qa-with-pervez-hoodbhoy-part-1-of-2/comment-page-1/#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>Bilal Zafar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nextstepforward.net/?p=1146#comment-178</guid>
		<description>Asim, 

That is some excellent work you describe. 

Just out of curiosity, did you have any institutional support, for example, from LUMS, on this project or is this a completely student-led, student-managed effort with no input from any institution (except the NGOs that you work with, of course)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asim, </p>
<p>That is some excellent work you describe. </p>
<p>Just out of curiosity, did you have any institutional support, for example, from LUMS, on this project or is this a completely student-led, student-managed effort with no input from any institution (except the NGOs that you work with, of course)?</p>
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		<title>By: Asim Fayaz</title>
		<link>http://www.nextstepforward.net/education-pakistan/qa-with-pervez-hoodbhoy-part-1-of-2/comment-page-1/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Asim Fayaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nextstepforward.net/?p=1146#comment-173</guid>
		<description>Four months back, we started a similar project at LUMS under the LUMUN (a Model UN society at LUMS) banner. It&#039;s called the LUMUN Social Responsibility Program (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=103077145999&amp;ref=ts). Instead of starting our own programs, we partnered with NGOs and aided their existing programs. Here&#039;s what we did:

CARE Foundation runs an &quot;ACCESS to English Language Program&quot; which provides free English classes to students of government schools. We had a team of 50 volunteers from all elitist private schools and colleges in Lahore who for 2 months visited these ACCESS centers every Friday/Saturday at places in Lahore like Fatehgarh, Harbanspura, Township, Rehmanpura, etc. They taught public speaking and debating by assigning 1 volunteer to 4-5 students. At the end of the 2 months, we held a Public Speaking Competition between students from the 15 ACCESS centers at Alhamra that was judged by mainstream debates coaches like Taimoor Banday and Omair Rana. Our next target is to get a team from these centers to participate in mainstream Model UN Conferences in Pakistan like LUMUN.

SAVE (Society for the Advancement of Education) is an NGO that operates Free Mashal Primary School at a village in Lahore. They&#039;re teaching an English-medium curriculum. Since it&#039;s a donation-based school, they&#039;re not able to afford qualified (and expensive) teachers. As a result, the quality of teaching is poor. Some teachers even have to translate the text in Urdu for themselves before teaching the kids. For 2 months, our 20 volunteers went 6 days a week, 10am - 1pm, and worked with the teachers to help them improve the level of teaching. We also helped them prepare tests and exams.

The volunteers all hailed from elitist private schools/colleges like Aitchison, LGS, LUMS, LSE and Alma. Convincing them to make the first visit was hard but once they had interacted with the kids, it was smooth sailing thereon.

We&#039;re now working on how to expand the program by affiliating with more NGO programs and coming up with small projects that student volunteers can take up as and when they&#039;re free during their academic year. You can check out the Facebook Group for details. Feedback here (or on the group) would be highly appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Four months back, we started a similar project at LUMS under the LUMUN (a Model UN society at LUMS) banner. It&#8217;s called the LUMUN Social Responsibility Program (<a href="http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=103077145999&#038;ref=ts" rel="nofollow">http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=103077145999&#038;ref=ts</a>). Instead of starting our own programs, we partnered with NGOs and aided their existing programs. Here&#8217;s what we did:</p>
<p>CARE Foundation runs an &#8220;ACCESS to English Language Program&#8221; which provides free English classes to students of government schools. We had a team of 50 volunteers from all elitist private schools and colleges in Lahore who for 2 months visited these ACCESS centers every Friday/Saturday at places in Lahore like Fatehgarh, Harbanspura, Township, Rehmanpura, etc. They taught public speaking and debating by assigning 1 volunteer to 4-5 students. At the end of the 2 months, we held a Public Speaking Competition between students from the 15 ACCESS centers at Alhamra that was judged by mainstream debates coaches like Taimoor Banday and Omair Rana. Our next target is to get a team from these centers to participate in mainstream Model UN Conferences in Pakistan like LUMUN.</p>
<p>SAVE (Society for the Advancement of Education) is an NGO that operates Free Mashal Primary School at a village in Lahore. They&#8217;re teaching an English-medium curriculum. Since it&#8217;s a donation-based school, they&#8217;re not able to afford qualified (and expensive) teachers. As a result, the quality of teaching is poor. Some teachers even have to translate the text in Urdu for themselves before teaching the kids. For 2 months, our 20 volunteers went 6 days a week, 10am &#8211; 1pm, and worked with the teachers to help them improve the level of teaching. We also helped them prepare tests and exams.</p>
<p>The volunteers all hailed from elitist private schools/colleges like Aitchison, LGS, LUMS, LSE and Alma. Convincing them to make the first visit was hard but once they had interacted with the kids, it was smooth sailing thereon.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re now working on how to expand the program by affiliating with more NGO programs and coming up with small projects that student volunteers can take up as and when they&#8217;re free during their academic year. You can check out the Facebook Group for details. Feedback here (or on the group) would be highly appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: Nature’s Coverage of Higher Education Reform in Pakistan: A Conversation with Athar Osama &#124; STEP - Science, Technology, and Education in Pakistan</title>
		<link>http://www.nextstepforward.net/education-pakistan/qa-with-pervez-hoodbhoy-part-1-of-2/comment-page-1/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Nature’s Coverage of Higher Education Reform in Pakistan: A Conversation with Athar Osama &#124; STEP - Science, Technology, and Education in Pakistan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nextstepforward.net/?p=1146#comment-168</guid>
		<description>[...] HEC, I also met and talked to a number of university leaders as well as HEC’s critics including Dr. Hoodbhoy. Dr. Naqvi made available to us a lot of data that we believe had not been publicly available in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] HEC, I also met and talked to a number of university leaders as well as HEC’s critics including Dr. Hoodbhoy. Dr. Naqvi made available to us a lot of data that we believe had not been publicly available in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Zia Banday</title>
		<link>http://www.nextstepforward.net/education-pakistan/qa-with-pervez-hoodbhoy-part-1-of-2/comment-page-1/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>Zia Banday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nextstepforward.net/?p=1146#comment-121</guid>
		<description>From your answers it appears that you had socialists leanings in younger times, which I believe usually all sensitive souls have. However, pragmatism sometimes demand compromises in real life. As you replied against a question that if provided Rs. 21 billion budget to spend on education, you will be spending the whole amount in colleges in Pakistan, raising teachers standards there. Will you please clarify:
 
1. Do you believe on central planning in education, where some high intellectual elite sitting in the centre decides what needs to be taught at lower levels, with lower rungs have to implement this plan of studies. 
2. Do you think that market has any role in managing education at college level, only government bureaucrats decide how much budgetary allocation to be made for each college. 
3. In your opinion your suggested method has the most probability to induce motivation in teaching staff without any linkage with market for sustaining their future growth. 
4. What are the opportunities of public private partnership for college education, where human motivation for fame &amp; social recognition could be used for attracting private monies for creating private ownership through establishing trusts</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From your answers it appears that you had socialists leanings in younger times, which I believe usually all sensitive souls have. However, pragmatism sometimes demand compromises in real life. As you replied against a question that if provided Rs. 21 billion budget to spend on education, you will be spending the whole amount in colleges in Pakistan, raising teachers standards there. Will you please clarify:</p>
<p>1. Do you believe on central planning in education, where some high intellectual elite sitting in the centre decides what needs to be taught at lower levels, with lower rungs have to implement this plan of studies.<br />
2. Do you think that market has any role in managing education at college level, only government bureaucrats decide how much budgetary allocation to be made for each college.<br />
3. In your opinion your suggested method has the most probability to induce motivation in teaching staff without any linkage with market for sustaining their future growth.<br />
4. What are the opportunities of public private partnership for college education, where human motivation for fame &amp; social recognition could be used for attracting private monies for creating private ownership through establishing trusts</p>
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		<title>By: Bilal Zafar</title>
		<link>http://www.nextstepforward.net/education-pakistan/qa-with-pervez-hoodbhoy-part-1-of-2/comment-page-1/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>Bilal Zafar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nextstepforward.net/?p=1146#comment-109</guid>
		<description>If &quot;Teach For Pakistan&quot; is built along the same lines as Teach for America (http://www.teachforamerica.org/), which probably is not what Bee had in mind, then it will be a full two-year committment for recent college graduates. At least in the case of TfA, these graduates work as full-time teachers, with all the perks and responsibilities of a teacher. That may be a bit far-fetched in the context of Pakistan, and may be that&#039;s why Bee suggested a scaled-down version of it where volunteers devote only a few hours a week. 

While I agree with you that a few hours of volunteering at random probably will not have a significant impact, I think these are worthwhile efforts nonetheless. At the very least, they get young people involved in volunteering work and that in its own right is no small feat. An intersting example of this is Project Topi (http://www.giki.edu.pk/Students/Societies/Project%20Topi/index.html) which took students at GIK Institute into the villages near their campus. Yaser can chime in on this, but my sense is that the volunteers probably learned just as much as the kids they were volunteering to teach, if not more! 

I like your mentoring idea. One example of this is the Big Brothers Big Sisters initiative in the US (http://www.bbbs.org).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If &#8220;Teach For Pakistan&#8221; is built along the same lines as Teach for America (<a href="http://www.teachforamerica.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.teachforamerica.org/</a>), which probably is not what Bee had in mind, then it will be a full two-year committment for recent college graduates. At least in the case of TfA, these graduates work as full-time teachers, with all the perks and responsibilities of a teacher. That may be a bit far-fetched in the context of Pakistan, and may be that&#8217;s why Bee suggested a scaled-down version of it where volunteers devote only a few hours a week. </p>
<p>While I agree with you that a few hours of volunteering at random probably will not have a significant impact, I think these are worthwhile efforts nonetheless. At the very least, they get young people involved in volunteering work and that in its own right is no small feat. An intersting example of this is Project Topi (<a href="http://www.giki.edu.pk/Students/Societies/Project%20Topi/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.giki.edu.pk/Students/Societies/Project%20Topi/index.html</a>) which took students at GIK Institute into the villages near their campus. Yaser can chime in on this, but my sense is that the volunteers probably learned just as much as the kids they were volunteering to teach, if not more! </p>
<p>I like your mentoring idea. One example of this is the Big Brothers Big Sisters initiative in the US (<a href="http://www.bbbs.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbbs.org</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.nextstepforward.net/education-pakistan/qa-with-pervez-hoodbhoy-part-1-of-2/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nextstepforward.net/?p=1146#comment-107</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just building on someone&#039;s comments here. They commented that perhaps some &quot;TeachForPakistan&quot; initiative should encourage students/instructors to volunteer a few hours at a month at public schools. What I honestly believe is that there&#039;s very little hope in the government taking useful steps towards anything and the greatest potential does indeed lie with citizens&#039; volunteer efforts.

However, teaching a few hours a month would bring negligible improvement I think. A regular teacher has a far greater impact than randomly selected people at different times. 

I know of someone whose teacher made her whole class vow that every one of them *will* commit to educating one person in their life. I think something like this would be a far more effective approach. Some sort of program where selected or volunteer students can actually &quot;adopt&quot; a younger brother/sister as a student in their field, and remain committed to them for at least a certain field of education for a certain period of time - perhaps a year or two at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just building on someone&#8217;s comments here. They commented that perhaps some &#8220;TeachForPakistan&#8221; initiative should encourage students/instructors to volunteer a few hours at a month at public schools. What I honestly believe is that there&#8217;s very little hope in the government taking useful steps towards anything and the greatest potential does indeed lie with citizens&#8217; volunteer efforts.</p>
<p>However, teaching a few hours a month would bring negligible improvement I think. A regular teacher has a far greater impact than randomly selected people at different times. </p>
<p>I know of someone whose teacher made her whole class vow that every one of them *will* commit to educating one person in their life. I think something like this would be a far more effective approach. Some sort of program where selected or volunteer students can actually &#8220;adopt&#8221; a younger brother/sister as a student in their field, and remain committed to them for at least a certain field of education for a certain period of time &#8211; perhaps a year or two at least.</p>
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		<title>By: Mohsin Reza Naqvi</title>
		<link>http://www.nextstepforward.net/education-pakistan/qa-with-pervez-hoodbhoy-part-1-of-2/comment-page-1/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohsin Reza Naqvi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nextstepforward.net/?p=1146#comment-104</guid>
		<description>Quote

&quot;Build on various current HEC initiatives such as foreign faculty hiring and scholarship schemes for university teachers. There are simply not enough qualified persons within Pakistan to adequately staff university departments. 

....The fact that these schemes have been mismanaged by the HEC.....

should not prejudice one against their potential usefulness if proper procedures and rules are adhered. Those selected for overseas scholarships should be required to clear an international subject test.&quot;

Unquote

I have heard / read Dr. Hoodbhoy saying things to this same effect on a number of occasions. I was hoping that he would explain that here but was disappointed to note that he did not. Maybe there is more in the second part of this interview.

I am of the opinion that although the initiatives taken by HEC may not be IDEALLY / FLAWLESSLY managed, but I believe that they have been fairly well managed. The foreign faculty hiring and scholarship programs are fairly transparent and along with other initiatives, they have had a discernibly positive impact on the overall education landscape of the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote</p>
<p>&#8220;Build on various current HEC initiatives such as foreign faculty hiring and scholarship schemes for university teachers. There are simply not enough qualified persons within Pakistan to adequately staff university departments. </p>
<p>&#8230;.The fact that these schemes have been mismanaged by the HEC&#8230;..</p>
<p>should not prejudice one against their potential usefulness if proper procedures and rules are adhered. Those selected for overseas scholarships should be required to clear an international subject test.&#8221;</p>
<p>Unquote</p>
<p>I have heard / read Dr. Hoodbhoy saying things to this same effect on a number of occasions. I was hoping that he would explain that here but was disappointed to note that he did not. Maybe there is more in the second part of this interview.</p>
<p>I am of the opinion that although the initiatives taken by HEC may not be IDEALLY / FLAWLESSLY managed, but I believe that they have been fairly well managed. The foreign faculty hiring and scholarship programs are fairly transparent and along with other initiatives, they have had a discernibly positive impact on the overall education landscape of the country.</p>
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		<title>By: Ijaz ALI</title>
		<link>http://www.nextstepforward.net/education-pakistan/qa-with-pervez-hoodbhoy-part-1-of-2/comment-page-1/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>Ijaz ALI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nextstepforward.net/?p=1146#comment-103</guid>
		<description>I do not agree with Pervaz Hoodbhoy, first he was continuosly targeting HEC. For the first time in the history of Pakistan a goverment has given proper attention to the higher education sector. All the students were selected on merit for higher studies(majority lower and middle class people). In the past all the budgets went into the pockets of politions and in the future I expect the same thing the people like PervaizHoodbhoy were silent in the past and when the funds of HEC will be blocked and will be redirected towards the pockets of politions, he will be silent again.
 His another objection is on the quality of students finananced by HEC for higher studies, and for him GRE type test is the scale of measuring intelligence. For this I would ask you Mr Prof; are you ready to pay fee which some time crosses 15000(GMAT) Pakistani rupees; secondly i know a person who could not even qualify the Pakistan based NTS in several attepts but got a Top ten Position in CSS. and if you want to see the quality of these students please take your phone and contact the foreign labs and ask their professors about their quality and see their DMC&#039;s; a large number of these pakistani students have got positions and have got foreigh scholarships.
You said that funds should be spent on colleges and schools, So it is a very good idea, today the budget for polio drops is  6 billion ruppees and the budget for the education of NWFP is 4 billion; so you should talk about these billions which are looted  that these should be spent on the education.
In pakistan at school and college level private sector has contributed a lot, but at university level it was of utmost importance for the govt to invest.

&lt;strong&gt;Webmaster&#039;s Note: &lt;/strong&gt;The comment was edited for content. Please read the content policy before commenting and refrain from personal attacks and baseless accusations. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not agree with Pervaz Hoodbhoy, first he was continuosly targeting HEC. For the first time in the history of Pakistan a goverment has given proper attention to the higher education sector. All the students were selected on merit for higher studies(majority lower and middle class people). In the past all the budgets went into the pockets of politions and in the future I expect the same thing the people like PervaizHoodbhoy were silent in the past and when the funds of HEC will be blocked and will be redirected towards the pockets of politions, he will be silent again.<br />
 His another objection is on the quality of students finananced by HEC for higher studies, and for him GRE type test is the scale of measuring intelligence. For this I would ask you Mr Prof; are you ready to pay fee which some time crosses 15000(GMAT) Pakistani rupees; secondly i know a person who could not even qualify the Pakistan based NTS in several attepts but got a Top ten Position in CSS. and if you want to see the quality of these students please take your phone and contact the foreign labs and ask their professors about their quality and see their DMC&#8217;s; a large number of these pakistani students have got positions and have got foreigh scholarships.<br />
You said that funds should be spent on colleges and schools, So it is a very good idea, today the budget for polio drops is  6 billion ruppees and the budget for the education of NWFP is 4 billion; so you should talk about these billions which are looted  that these should be spent on the education.<br />
In pakistan at school and college level private sector has contributed a lot, but at university level it was of utmost importance for the govt to invest.</p>
<p><strong>Webmaster&#8217;s Note: </strong>The comment was edited for content. Please read the content policy before commenting and refrain from personal attacks and baseless accusations.</p>
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		<title>By: Binish Bhagwanee</title>
		<link>http://www.nextstepforward.net/education-pakistan/qa-with-pervez-hoodbhoy-part-1-of-2/comment-page-1/#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator>Binish Bhagwanee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nextstepforward.net/?p=1146#comment-102</guid>
		<description>&quot;We Don&#039;t Have Teachers&quot;, I Disagree!

What you can expect from a person to teach who is getting 4630 Rs per month (an example from Govt. School in Sukkur).

We have different streams of education, students do get good education in private schools (e.g., A and O levels), and the same teachers are above-average in their private education centers.

We have three lines of education, Public schools, Madrasah and Private schools. Gradautes from Publich schools are the ones Dr. PH is talking about, gradaute from Madrasah (at least most of them) are as confused as they were in their first day, and gradautes from Private school flee the country.

We have to make our public schools more attractive for the masses, for good students and for hard working teachers, we have to pay them competitive salaries. I wouldn&#039;t teach for 5000 Rs/Month when my son&#039;s school tuition is 10,000/month :-(

I also have a suggestion, we can have something like &quot;TeachForPakistan&quot; where the stundets/teachers from elite class or good schools can volunteer sometime and goto public school and teach for few hour every month. We have to stop criticising and step forward and play some role.

GOD bless Pakistan

Bee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We Don&#8217;t Have Teachers&#8221;, I Disagree!</p>
<p>What you can expect from a person to teach who is getting 4630 Rs per month (an example from Govt. School in Sukkur).</p>
<p>We have different streams of education, students do get good education in private schools (e.g., A and O levels), and the same teachers are above-average in their private education centers.</p>
<p>We have three lines of education, Public schools, Madrasah and Private schools. Gradautes from Publich schools are the ones Dr. PH is talking about, gradaute from Madrasah (at least most of them) are as confused as they were in their first day, and gradautes from Private school flee the country.</p>
<p>We have to make our public schools more attractive for the masses, for good students and for hard working teachers, we have to pay them competitive salaries. I wouldn&#8217;t teach for 5000 Rs/Month when my son&#8217;s school tuition is 10,000/month :-(</p>
<p>I also have a suggestion, we can have something like &#8220;TeachForPakistan&#8221; where the stundets/teachers from elite class or good schools can volunteer sometime and goto public school and teach for few hour every month. We have to stop criticising and step forward and play some role.</p>
<p>GOD bless Pakistan</p>
<p>Bee</p>
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