asad_abidi_3In Fall 2008, the Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS) opened its doors to 150 freshmen students to study science and engineering at its brand new School of Science and Engineering (SSE). Offering undergraduate degrees in Biology, Chemistry, Mathematics, Physics, Computer Science, and Electrical Engineering,  and graduate degrees in Computer Science and Mathematics, LUMS SSE had much grander plans than most Pakistani universities. Indeed, SSE envisions to be not just a “successful research university”, but “perhaps an MIT, Stanford or a Caltech for Pakistan.” To realize this vision, SSE was able to raise a significant amount of money (more than $25 million), including Rs. 1500 and 500 million from the governments of Pakistan and Punjab, respectively.

Perhaps equally impressive was the faculty that LUMS was able to assemble for this nascent school. It was a small — perhaps too small — group of promising young researchers, brought together by the project team to set the standard for LUMS SSE. Leading this group at the time was Dr. Asad Abidi, a professor at the Electrical Engineering Department, University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA).

Professor Abidi was born and raised in Pakistan and moved to England at age 16. After earning his B.S. from Imperial College London, he went on to complete his M.S. and Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering from the University of California, Berkeley in 1981. Following a brief stint at the Bell Research Labs in New Jersey, in 1985 Professor Abidi joined the faculty at the UCLA Henry Samueli School of Engineering and Applied Science.  An accomplished researchers and a pioneer in the field of RF CMOS design (the stuff that’s at the heart of our cell phones), Professor Abidi has won numerous honors, culminating with his election to the National Academy of Engineering, the highest professional honor accorded to American engineers for their life-time achievements.

In the summer of 2007, Professor Abidi went on leave from UCLA and joined LUMS as the first dean of SSE. There he played a pivotal role in setting the direction of the school. But, less than two years later, Professor Abidi was back at UCLA and at his home in the beautiful Pacific Palisades, California. That is where STEP Editor Bilal Zafar sat down with Professor Abidi to talk about LUMS SSE (Part 1), and much more (Part 2).

STEP: You were leading LUMS SSE when the first batch of students was admitted. In so far as the science and engineering universities are concerned, SSE’s process of student-induction was unique in Pakistan. What sort of students was LUMS SSE looking for in that first batch?

Asad Abidi (AA): We wanted to bring in students who could be groomed to be future leaders in science and technology, and who could influence hundreds of others. So, we handpicked the few who had a combination of things; academic excellence was not the only thing. Do they, for example, have passion? It’s too early to have passion for science – although some of them already demonstrated that – but do they have passion at all? Do they have leadership skills? Do they have a personality that could influence others? Do they have breadth in their intellect? So, we were looking for a personality and a total character that suggested entrepreneurship, leadership, and so on.

LUMS SSE is an intellectually elite institution and that was the basis for our selection criteria. Our aim was to focus this kind of very intellectually elite education on people who will have a 10x impact when they come out.

STEP: One popular criticism of LUMS SSE is that it might turn out to be a great institution, but it will be an institution for a few hundred people in a nation with 25 million people of university-going age. Can an institution like this really have an impact?

AA: It is too early to say, but it has a very clear precedent and model. And the model is institutions in the US like MIT or Caltech.

The idea was that each one of the students would be educated broadly and deeply in math and science or engineering, hopefully go on to do PhDs, then return to Pakistan or engage with it somehow to influence hundreds of others. That’s why we handpicked the few who had a combination of qualities. AABlockQuote

At the first orientation, we told all the students, and their parents were sitting with them, that every one of you is going to make a significant change to Pakistan in the end.  You don’t know how yet. You may turn out to be a technical entrepreneur, start a high-tech company, you may turn out to be a world-renowned professor … we don’t know. But every one of you is going to have an impact, because that is our mission — to produce an entire generation of scientific and engineering leaders.

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with focusing this kind of elite education on a small group of students. We cannot have every institution that is egalitarian; it’s just not possible.  There are many other universities in Pakistan that are egalitarian, and they do a fine job. Our argument is that there is room for one elite institution; a place at which people look and say, what are they up to? How do they teach the such-and-such subject? So, in terms of curricular innovation, bringing in research, and even administrative things like selection of undergraduates, LUMS SSE can be a trendsetter in Pakistan. So, I think there is room for one such institution.

STEP: Just one such institution?

AA: Yes, you can’t have two simply because there’s not enough faculty.  To have two world class institutions, you need two world class faculties. You can’t even get one together.

STEP: Harold Shapiro, former President of Princeton University, argues in his book “A Larger Sense of Purpose” that, in order to have a sound higher education system, you need strong interaction between world-class research universities in the country and other, less prestigious teaching institutions. To me, as an outsider, LUMS SSE comes across as if it exists in bubble inside Pakistan. For example, there are very few joint appointments between professors at, say, Quaid-e-Azam University or UET Lahore or NU-FAST or NUST and LUMS. Why is that?

AA: I completely agree that there has to be open communication with the whole community because, all the institutions that define the (higher education) eco-system play complimentary roles.

To your point about SSE “existing in a bubble”, I think it’s a little more complex than that. First of all, there is a lot of fear in Pakistan that, unless you are on guard, you’ll become mediocre. There is a history of erosion of institutions such as GIKI that had started with a bang. But, that does not mean that you put things in a bubble.  What it means is that, first, you build a critical mass that defines excellence and exemplifies it. Once you have the critical mass of faculty, then you can start engaging people from other institutions who come in and actually feel uplifted by their experience and their interaction. So, while SSE was going through this period of defining its culture as an institution, perhaps it came across as existing in a bubble.

Then, there are a lot of other factors which I’m not sure I want to go into too much. I’ll only say this much: there was a sense of elitism amongst the people involved in developing SSE, and I suppose you could argue that as long as it is intellectual elitism, perhaps that’s not such a bad thing. But taken to extremes in the Pakistani milieu, elitism and over-zealousness can do damage. With the growth of the institution, I feel there is more maturity and less fear, less insecurity.

The fact of the matter is that the present faculty is so small that it is already stretched to the limit.  Next year, SSE would have three classes (freshman, sophomore and junior year) and at that point the faculty would have to bring in other people just to teach. So, I think that circumstances will force SSE to open up.  I was promoting some of this (while I was there), but at that early stage there was some opposition to this. My view was that you have to guard these fledgling institutions until this sense of excellence takes root, and once the institution knows where it’s going it should take others along with it.

STEP: Let’s get to the issue of sustainability. Can an institution like SSE sustain itself – financially as well as administratively — or will it be just a flash in the pan like many others?

AA: As of right now, it’s very hard to say. On the one hand, you can look at LUMS as an institution and say that it has been very resilient. Over the past 22 years it has only improved and, today, it enjoys a preeminent position in Pakistan. But that’s the business school, and more recently, social sciences and humanities; the Science and Engineering School is the newest addition. However, given the entirely different cultures, past success is no reliable predictor of the future.

The fragility at SSE, first of all, comes from its finances. Science instruction is an expensive enterprise. For science instruction you have to have building infrastructure, lab equipment, consumables and safety, etc., whereas in business instruction you need desks and computers. Also, SSE set a precedent by recruiting faculty with the promise that it could do publishable research, and that meant a lot of investment early on. This puts a large burden on the trustees to either give money themselves, or to raise large sums for SSE. They all come from the business background; they were involved with the business school, so perhaps one could argue that the trustees are still debating amongst themselves whether SSE is a good idea or not.  Or, at least a group among them feels that science can be real money drain with no short-term payoff, and I am sure this remains a subject of hot debate.AABlockQuote2

Administratively, the main issue is that of leadership. To run SSE, you need excellent leaders with great breadth of knowledge and experience in science research and teaching. The leaders must gain the trust and the respect of faculty, parents, students, and even government officials, because they have to interface with the government to get accreditation, funding, etc. They must also have the respect and credibility in the Pakistani academic community so that they can talk to their counterparts in other universities to show that SSE respects other institutions and wishes to bring everyone together as a community for mutual uplift. You need people at the top who do that job of being ambassadors and who really believe in it. But finding such leaders in Pakistan is very hard.

STEP: Just hard or impossible, at this point?

AA: It may be impossible.

STEP: Can’t you develop processes so that personalities become less relevant?

AA: I think it’s really hard to have well-impacted processes defined in fledgling institutions. There is just a lot of ad hoc stuff that you must do, and there is no precedence for what you may be trying to do. You can’t expect someone to come in and put in every conceivable process; it doesn’t work that way.  In new institutions, in my experience, you have to ‘wing it’, you have to improvise and much more importantly, you have to run it on enthusiasm more than on processes.  If the enthusiasm isn’t there at the beginning, people will just feel so fearful of their small numbers and the huge task ahead that they will slowly withdraw. So, you have to pump up a lot of enthusiasm in people; processes emerge in due course. This is why good leadership with relevant experience is important.

STEP: So, then, how can SSE make sure that it remains a strong institution without the kind of leadership you described?

AA: I think they have to become largely leader-independent. The faculty at LUMS is, on the whole, very sensible and mature. Their collective wisdom has to drive the institution, pretty much independent of who is at the top.  For example, if anyone sees a little conflagration coming up, it should be everybody’s business at LUMS to diffuse it.  That’s the only way to survive and I think there is some of that sense of ownership now developing. I think SSE’s Computer Science group, being large and having survived some adversities in the past, can point the way and say to the newly formed groups, ‘look, these little disputes or fears’ — and, by the way, all fighting within universities is over the most trivial of things  –  ‘have no basis and let’s remain focused on our bigger agenda’.

It takes a certain maturity and I worked pretty hard with the faculty to try to make them feel that as a group, as a collective decision-making body, they are very strong and that they can draw upon the traditions of LUMS — of resilience, improvement and excellence – and march on. I said to the faculty: name me the last three presidents of, say, Harvard University or some other famous university?  You won’t know them because they are in the background; what’s in the forefront is the faculty. I think they understand pretty well the need for this communal sense and shared responsibility. AABlockQuote3

You see, Pakistani institutions are very fragile. Whether it’s a hospital or a charitable organization, they can fall apart when the right person walks away or dies or whatever.  Everything just hangs on a thread. We have to get beyond this; I mean, will the Edhi trust survive Edhi?

It shouldn’t be like that. Pakistan should take pride in its good institutions. People should say: here is an institution worth saving and we want it to get better next year, not worse. Those inside the institution should commit themselves; those outside it, the same. Parents should say, we want LUMS to get better regardless of who is it at the top, or whether its funds run out, because SSE is giving our children an opportunity we didn’t imagine was possible in Pakistan. People should say, look, of all the places in Pakistan doing science and engineering teaching and research, you guys are doing an excellent job, you must continue to do that; we are counting on it! That’s the kind of sentiment it takes to sustain an institution like the SSE.  But we have to be a little more mature as a society and understand that that’s how countries preserve their institutions. It takes a lot to keep these valuable things going.

STEP: But, a few years ago, a number of faculty members (around five) left LUMS. Do you feel that it has happened for the last time?

AA: I do not know all details, but I do have some idea of the problems that caused the departure. Basically, it was problems festering that were not tended to in time. When problems fester, they just get messier and messier. That is when leaders should step in and defuse the crises. But, I think these are inevitable growing pains in a Pakistani institution.

The important thing is that it should never happen again … because once is enough. This is why when I was at LUMS I told everybody to look at the mistakes of the past and pledge not to let them happen again… for the sake of the institution.  I very much hope that it was the last mass departure, because if the institution starts to hemorrhage its faculty, even if it loses just one or two people, things can unravel very quickly. And, that’s what I think everyone has to be on-guard for.

STEP: Final question on this topic of SSE: what is your advice to the people at LUMS?

AA: My message to the faculty at SSE is: you are the force, you are the institution. You are experienced, you are teaching at a world class university, you are doing great research in Pakistan, you just need to pull together and say, this is our institution, this is what we are fighting for and this is what we are building it for. You are the one who define this institution, and you will continue to bring fame to it. You are at the front-line, delivering a powerful tool (or, should I say, weapon) to the best of Pakistani youth to build a better future: a high quality, liberalizing, deep, higher education.

In part two of our conversation with Dr. Abidi, we talk about funding for higher education — can the current levels be sustained and why the industry is not investing more — and what Pakistanis abroad can do to help. So, stay tuned!

12 Responses to “Building an ‘MIT for Pakistan’? A Conversation with Dr. Asad Abidi (Part 1 of 2)”

  1. Umair says:

    The fact that engineering institutions in Pakistan keep declining is a matter of great concern. Whereas as business programs and medical schools seem to survive, I wonder why it is that engineering institutions do not.

    • Obaid says:

      Good point Umair. I think this because a lack of sustainability. What will someone with an engineering degree do? Is quality research being conducted to attract those who want to go down the research/higher education track? What about those who want to innovate? It is sad to see that very few software companies in Pakistan build their own products – they are content to work on a project to project basis which leads to zero professional and intellectual growth.

      More importantly there is very little professional growth in software (for eg)… a software engineer is lucky to get paid Rs30K as a starting salary. In 5-8 years time he will be very luck if to Rs60-80K

    • Majid says:

      Because engineering cannot survive or should say develop without sciene and technology based manufacturing. We do not have any Science and technology base manufacturing. The best thing our private organizations can make is Urea.

  2. Hassan says:

    Well to me … SSE is a nice step . I would also like to mention that right person should be at the right place so in education , there are many world renowned people who should be brought back to Pakistan and be given the proper respect but the deplorable thing is that even those who serve this country for year are victimized by politics within the institutions and that too mostly by less skilled and renowned professors with of help of people in power , mostly administration which normally has no link to the concerned educational field . We must appoint world class Pakistani professor living abroad , as professors in our university and better if these people are given the charge too because they are a lot better than an army general, the latter find their way every where in Pakistan and that’s ridiculous .

    • Affan Syed says:

      Hassan,
      while I agree with your diagnosis, I am not sure that the solution is practical for exactly the reasons that you point out i.e. status quo’s inertia (for a good reason, on their part!). Inviting Dr. Abidi is a real-world attempt at implementing this solution, that too in an institution that has nothing to do with generals or army that we all too easily blame for all problems. Just to clarify, I am totally against generals being assigned administrative posts, its just that several interlinked primal causes can manifest as a single problem. And so removing just one cause does not solve the problem and might, paradoxically, be detrimental.

      Without going into the detail about my opinion of these several underlying problems, I would like to point out that in addition to having a sincere and well wishing administration, we need to inculcate young faculty that identifies his/her fortune with the institution at hand. Such a faculty not only wants, but needs, its university to progress so that their standing among peers, along with their university also goes up. Only then can the faculty (which are the lifeblood of any thriving educational institute) rise above the petty issues that are hinted to by Dr. Abidi above. Thus to me a greater focus on the need of attracting the best new talent is essential for the long term survival of educational institutions in Pakistan.
      (again, this is one part of the puzzle where several others exist many of which I, with my severely limited insight, may not even know of as yet).

  3. Anonymous says:

    May I request the hnurable editors of this forum that kindly improve the outlook , Q’s & A’s are simple merged , no distinction ,put question wih bold and big size , right side is wasted without any use. Its a wonderful blog and people would enjoy more if you plz. improve readability and colur scheme.No offence at all
    Best Regards

    • Editors says:

      Dear Anonymous,

      Thank you! We always welcome constructive criticism and will take your excellent suggestion under advisement.

      STEP is a volunteer-run enterprise, so please roll up your sleeves and join us! We welcome people with good ideas in our team.

      Best,
      The Editors

  4. Naeem says:

    Dear All
    This is an interesting discussion and i couldn’t resist commenting.

    There is always a lot of army bashing in all fields whenever ex-army men are appointed. I agree its not their business…the problem is there are virtually no civilian disciplinarians. I don’t know whether any of you have had the honour of being at IBA when Dr. Wahab was there, but he ruled IBA like a general. & that is why he was able to make this great institution. he used to visit student toilets and would fire janitorial staff on the spot if found dirty. The class discipline is much matter than even army platoons. If one is 2 seconds late in class after the instructor…one is marked absent, even if one is present…that’s the kind of draconian laws we need in our educational institutions instead of typical ‘CHALKO KHAIR HEY’ approach.

    regards

    • Fahim Khanzada says:

      I concur Naeem in saying that discipline lacks in civilian officers as compared to Army. However, why is it that we quote the word ‘Army’ and not ‘honesty’ or ‘diligent management’ whilst discussing discipline. Tackling corruption and upkeep of transparency are the topmost challenges faced in any organization whether army, academia, bureaucracy etc.

      Mentioning the controversial terms like ‘army’, ‘politicians’ etc mostly, in our society, leads to heated discussions which further divert the main course of discussion. So it’s better to avoid repeating the practices far from objectives of STEP. The object is to create awareness by imparting quality education and it demands both excellence and sincere devotion.

      Any project ranging from controlling traffic to managing barracks demands the upkeep of discipline as a prerequisite to successful completion. An honest administrative is inculcated with qualities of integrity, punctuality and egalitarianism etc, be him an Army Commander, a professor or a banker.

      Thank you.

  5. MY says:

    Hi,

    Please advice SSE lums is good or MBBS? and why?

    Thanks
    MY

    • Jahanzaib says:

      Hi MY,
      That is a very difficult question if you ask anyone else. Ask these questions yourself and you will have the answers. What attracts you? Is your passion serving others directly by helping the ailing or by giving the world which will comfort the general public?
      Priority, while choosing the right career path, should be given to personal desires. MBBS is thought to be a very good option in Pakistan but i left it for B.Sc in LUMS because i thought it was the right career for me. Both the choices, MBBS and SSE are the best in their respective fields (pardon me for taking SSE as a career choice) so any suggestion might not be helpful at all. It’s your decision to make. And i suggest that you rely on your personal preferences rather than asking others.
      Have a nice professional career :)

  6. Sameer says:

    Hello

    What is the job prospect of a SSE graduate?And is studying engineering really difficult?

Discuss

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